Iraq deadlines and vetoes
The Senate has just passed a $122 billion war spending bill that would require President George W. Bush to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq within 120 days, with a non-binding goal of all troops being withdrawn by the end of March 2008.
The House has passed a similar bill. The House and Senate will now presumably get together to hammer out a final bill that will require some sort of withdrawal timetable.
Bush has promised to veto any bill with a timetable -- and he should. Any timetable will erode the possibility for success in creating democracy in Iraq. The terrorists and radical Shiites and Sunnis will just wait us out, etc.
That stated, Bush's administration needs to figure out an end game in Iraq and share it with the American people. And the current Iraqi government needs to show real progress, and do it very soon. Our troops can't prop them up indefinitely.
This isn't just an issue of patience. It's an issue of having the military capability available to protect ourselves from other potential threats. Like Iran, for example.
posted by Patrick Rice @ 10:13 AM
9 Comments
9 Comments:
I finally agree with something you wrote.
Marty Siegel
Tom...seems the majority in Iraq are either "radical Sunnis" or "radical Shiites."
And those who don't identify with either of those labels probably are in the ranks of the terrorists.
We DO need a timetable to extricate ourselves from that quicksand! Let them (Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds) duke it out for their own pieces of turf.
Remember, there WAS no Iraq until the British made it so.
As for Iran, there's a lot of bluster there - likely trying to get "equal negotiating" status with the major world players. They have to know if they go beyond bluster, they're in for big trouble!
But let's not just try to ignore them and play the "I'm gonna belt you with a big stick" game. We belittle ourselves as a nation when we do - as we have belittled ourselves to a degree with continuing the Iraq adventure.
azferret,
you seem like a very misguided, misunderstood person. Best of luck to you. :) And who's Tom, btw?
By letting the Iraqi people "duke it out" and getting our military out of the middle east do you mean to let the violence escalate until it spreads throughout the rest of the country where things are going extremely good and people are living normal lives, and then diffusing more throughout the region, bringing chaos to Iraq's neighboring countries and therefore making Iraq even more of a breeding ground for terrorists and anti-westerners to conspire threats against the west, ultimately leading to another major attack on either the United States of America, the U.K., or both?
And in addition to pulling out soon, do you also imply that we give them (the terrorists I remind you) a calendar date of when we should pull our great men and women out of there so the terrorists can plan and strategize their attacks on the west around our timetable, making it much more convenient for them and their hectic schedules. Maybe then we can give them a heads up that we’ll be out by March, so they can “pencil in” an attack on the Sears Tower around March 8.
Is THAT what you want, because that's EXACTLY what you just stated. (I can play the “ALL-CAPS” game too)
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Rice, and considering he’s a democrat, I think he deserves a cookie.
It is Congress' job to declare war, and the President's to wage it. Those who call this "Bush's War" (I can think of a certain forum-goer) are misguided. President Bush requested that Congress declare war, that's true. However, Congress is the one who made that decision. This is, in the end, THEIR war. The President is the one who wages it though. Maybe they should let him do his job, now that they've done theirs...
Just one thing to say - study your history. Approximately 500 IRA terrorist kept over half of the British Army tied up for over 50 years. The most current estimate from credible sources, our generals in Iraq, estimate between 5000 - 7000 terrorist in Iraq with an unlimited resupply of these darling marters. The president has already stated publically that the problem will not be solved in his tenure as president. Are we willing to have Americans killed indefinitly, I for one am not. End our involvement now and let the cards fall where they may. If these people want freedom and democracy let them die for it as our forefathers did.
I think the vote by congress can be a very good thing if President Bush plays it smart.
He can veto the bill, then go to the Iraqis and say, "Congress is on my butt to get out. You people need to step up and help me make this surge effective so we can make progress. If we don't, they may override my veto next time."
Then we win either way. Either the surge works, progress is made, and we start to bring the troops home. Or progress is not made, things stay the same or get worse, and pressure mounts from the public to bring the troops home.
Am I making sense, or is my reasoning faulty?
I disagree with Pat, a timetable is a good idea in this instance because the country is in a civil war. We are not on the side of the Sunnis or Shites therefore we are a third party interfering with these 2 sides of the war. They need to fight it out without us. If it makes the Republicans happy we can go back in there and help them establish a democracy once THEIR war is over.
This is my feelings about the terrible situation that we have put ourselves in. We are to protect our country, not run lives of others. If they want democracy in their country, they should fight for it.
Now Drew don't get upset. Lets say we do pull out and they fight for the turf. Who's dying in that war? Not us, right? "Let our people go." Why can't we worry about our country and democracy here? Save some money for this, peice of crap, economy. Every country has problems of their own. Lets fix ours.
As to deadlines and benchmarks. For four years we have been bogged down in Iraq without specified goals or aiming at a specific date to be done. You cannot operate that way. Otherwise you will be there four more years with no end in sight. Give the deadline and benchmark concept a chance.
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