white, black suspensions
The Sunday edition of the Northwest Florida Daily News included an excellent front-page story by Rachel Kyler examining school suspensions on the Emerald Coast.
The story, and accompanying information at nwfdailynews.com, includes a lot of data of interest. The most interesting comparison to me is this: Black students are about twice as likely to be suspended from school as white students. And black male students are the most likely of all to be suspended.
Why is that? What do folks think are the reasons behind this disparity? Let me know.
posted by Patrick Rice @ 9:19 AM
23 Comments
23 Comments:
I think it all depends on the school. My brother went to a 90% black school in Orlando. He was repeatedly beaten up, because he is a blonde hair, blue eyed boy(what they called an easy target). When one of the staff,(also majority black), finally noticed, my brother was the one who was suspended. They told my mother that the other student would also be suspended, the next day we found out that the other child didn't even get a slap on the wrist. Now, you tell me who's getting all of the privelages.
Students are suspended for misbehaving. Unless you have evidence to the contrary it means that more blacks are being suspended because they misbehave more than others do. If anybody claims this is racism it’s up to them to prove their case.
It’s highly unlikely there’s blatant racism among all teachers and administrators at every different school, yet parents and students will probably try to blame someone else rather than take personal responsibility as they should.
It’s easy for people to play the race card, but it doesn’t work. Anytime an issue like this arises people yell racism, but they never provide any evidence to support their allegations. Since the race card is played so often it’s no longer effective. The unfortunate outcome is that if real racism ever does happen people are increasingly skeptical of the accusations because so many people are falsely accused of racism.
Why not just assume, The ones misbehaving get suspended.
First of Pat: great investigation! This kind of investigating is what newspapers have to do to keep from dying.
And as for the causes of these variations, there's only one reason: Parenting. It's the way they are brought up. Period.
There's absoulutely no racism involved or discrimination. This is just how it is: more black males just tend to grow up in less than ideal enviroments than others. I'm sure over time (and I hope) that this trend will fade and everyone's "statistics" will blend and become become more balanced with eachother.
As for the suspensions as a whole, it's what should be expected...if not enough. We need much more discipline in schools if parent's aren't willing to do it themselves.
The problem with statistics is that they provide an image but not all of the facts.
The reality is that there may not be a problem other than treating everyone the same. A child misbehaves in some way, the child should receive the same punishment whether the child is white, black or hispanic. If one group of children misbehaves more than others, they will receive a disproportionate number of punishments.
Statistics sometimes show that whites have more income, more two-parent families or families that are able to pay more attention to a child and correct that child at home to prevent problems at school. If that happens to be the case here, it is not surprising that there would be more minority kids being punished.
Unfortunately, in some situations, the reaction is to tolerate misbehavior from the minority group in order to keep the statistics balanced. That hurts everyone, including the kids who learn they can get away with all kinds of misbehavior that other cannot--and they act accordingly.
Some have called that situation the racism of low expectations.
Of course, it is also possible that teachers think the minority students are more likely to cause problems and automatically take action against a student because of the low expectations.
In short, the statistics, by themselves are likely to be relatively meaningless but will still create numerous problems for the for the administration. It would be unfortunate if the result is to put up with unacceptable behavior from one group to avoid creating a statistical problem but it may happen--or they may just crack down on minor problems for the white students while ignoring similar behavior from minorities to create stats that will look better.
We obviously have a long way to go; unfortunately, we often seem to head in the wrong direction while choosing to ignore the real problem and settle for surface equality. It is also unfortunate, as another person points out here, that as a society we are lurching toward a lack of individual responsibility and, instead, prefer to blame the "system" for our problems rather than requiring any responsibility from an individual.
I must admit that my first reaction to this article was negative. I couldn't imagine why you would allow such a pot to be stirred but now I feel quite different. As I work at a school I can tell you that this problem is more of the childs family situation than racial. Children of any racial group that come from low income situations have more discipline problems. That would be a great article. Lets see this story done with an economic breakdown. The numbers would be alarming I am sure. Let's see the numbers for parents that work at night and leave the kids home either alone or with older siblings. Do these issues tend to apply to a certain demographic. That would be a great article also. What are the numbers for single parent families. All good angles for future articles. Thanks for bringing a very important subject out in the open. I would love to see a series done with different factors included. Wouldn't it be wonderful if something positive were to come from this in the form of more affordable housing so people could improve their situations or more day care services for people that are working so as not to leave children alone. We as a community are able to pull together in a crisis. Well, this is a crisis and something can be done if we get a dialog going.
I personally want to know about the timing of suspensions, in particular whether more suspensions happen prior to FCAT than after, and also whether zoning waivers are ended just prior to FCAT. I know zoning is enforced just prior to FCAT.
I agree the disparity would be far more alarming when looked at from an economic standpoint. The poorer families with the parent(s) working night jobs while the kids stay at home unattended "generally" have more discipline issues both at school and at home. This is due, by and large, to the lack of parenting at home, coming full circle, because the parents are working nights or going to school at night and leaving the kids at home alone.
I'm quite sure in some areas there are racial issues, but here in NW Florida I think the issues are, by far, economic.
My only question - How in the hell can our schools be rated "A" schools with the number of students being suspended for discipline. Our test scores are high, leading the state, yet large numbers of students are discipline problems. I don't get it, can anyone explain this?
To tom w the explaination seems simple enough to me. I will use the example that I just read in one of the other blogs. South Walton High School has 5 blacks of those there were 3 ISS (in school means they can still do their work just not in their regular class) so their ration was 93 of 100. Now were those 3 different kids or the same kid 3 times. It doesn't say. Now as they didn't say what offenses or how many are repeat you have to figure all the numbers are a bit off. Do they really have large numbers of kids who are bad or smaller numbers of kids who do more bad things. Don't be sucked into half a story
At Bruner Middle school, the 8th grade AP history teacher used the n word during class. Said he got carried away in the moment, apologized to the class and is still teaching. Nothing happened to him. What is this teaching our children? Don't believe me, check with the sup of the schools, Mrs. Tibbets. She has done nothing. But every week children get suspended or expelled for breaking the rules set by the state and county, but this man can keep his job and continue teaching CHILDREN even though he has broken the rules.
I will say from someone who works at a school. ISS is being blown way out of proportion. In school suspentions can be for so many petty reason. Walking on the wrong side of a hall, not doig homework, chewing gum etc. These children are put in a room for the day to do their regular work (so there is no missed assignments) with a tutor. These kids actually have more one on one time with a teacher because there is usually only one or two kids in ISS. To use those figures to boost the suspention rate in the schools is a little bit of sensationalism. The OOS (out of school) suspentions or expultions should be the real numbers to be concerned about. The kids can't make up that work and that is what hurts them in the future. They are missing education which I don't agree with.
Suspensions and expulsions are based upon policy and rules. Not favoritism and politics. It is strange that the NWFDN article did not surface until Superintendent of Schools Gaetz departed to become State Senator Gaetz. The only thing that I can recommend is that Superintendent Tibbets ensure that teachers, staff are competent and committed, and that promotions up the hierarchy of public education system not be based upon the good ole boy and good ole girl philosophies, e.g. promote my niece she is great, or hire my son he can't find a job. In other words, hire and promote the best and brightest, and suspensions will be managed by the rules.
In history (especially Advanced Placement) the word "nigger" (yeah, I said it) is known be used when discussing the time period in which it was used in. It's a substantial part of history and can not just be ignored. It is never used in derogatory usage when teaching AP History in high school. Most kids are mature enough to understand. But many adults aren't. People need to understand history.
But that's beside the point. No student in Okaloosa County can be put in ISS for just walking on the wrong side of the hall or just for chewing gum a couple times, or for missing a few homework assignments.
Students who get ISS's or OSS's don't get them because they've accidentally messed up a couple times, they get them because they messed up many, many times...and they have been warned many, many times.
And I have to say this: some of you need to watch what you say, because apparently, you have no idea what you are talking about.
To drew I can assure you that I do know what I am talking about I work at a school in Santa Rosa County ( it was also included in the article) which is the county I referred to in my previous post. Here we can and do give ISS for small infractions, we find it stops larger ones. We use our ISS time well and the kids have excellent one on one tutoring during it. Perhaps it is you who should watch what you say without the facts.
To the person who responded to my post:
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but Okaloosa COunty schools have been number one in the state for quite some time. Maybe Santa Rosa Schools should take advice from us. I know we're doing something right.
drew I say this with no disrespect also but on this issue you are sadly lacking in fact. Although Okaloosa does continue to rank number one in some areas of FCAT they do not rank number one in all areas. Please check the writing and science scores. While they are great and believe me I think they are my children attend OK schools What OK County doesn't rank in #1 Santa Rosa does and they ping pong back and forth on those subjects from year to year. Please do check these facts at either myflorida.com
or FCATparentnetwork.com. I in no way disrespected the county I live in, in favor of the one I work in I just said that they do it differently not better just different which further proves my earlier point that the article was incomplete because you can't compare counties that discipline so differently. As you say OK wouldn't suspend for petty reason and we do. That is not apples to apples so they could have handles each county seperately.
Alright, point taken. I also am involved with the school system. But, if your county does give suspensions for those reasons, I still belive that the student has had to have been warned and known the rules. Which means the ISS's were completely neccesary. But, if you give suspensions for one time offenses for chewing gum, your policies must be changed or addressed. That's ridiculous.
Drew, I was so tickled today when I went to work and found out that Santa Rosa County has placed 1st in 3rd grade reading scores. Okaloosa also did great coming in 3rd. We were second behind Alachua in math with Okaloosa again coming in a great 3rd. Now I will admit I am not counting the special school districts like the Fl Virtual School that only have 70 students. They consistantly rate very well on these but I don't think they are included in the state scores the same as a "standard" school district. I guess maybe we are doing something right by giving more ISS instead of OOS. We use our ISS time wisely to try to get the kids the help they aren't getting at home. As far as the amount of warning until a child recieves ISS. I believe it is 3 referrals before ISS so it is not always after only one offense unless the child shows a really bad attitude about being corrected. Perhaps it is Okaloosa County that should "take some advice" as you say.
Drew, I was so tickled today when I went to work and found out that Santa Rosa County has placed 1st in 3rd grade reading scores. Okaloosa also did great coming in 3rd. We were second behind Alachua in math with Okaloosa again coming in a great 3rd. Now I will admit I am not counting the special school districts like the Fl Virtual School that only have 70 students. They consistantly rate very well on these but I don't think they are included in the state scores the same as a "standard" school district. I guess maybe we are doing something right by giving more ISS instead of OOS. We use our ISS time wisely to try to get the kids the help they aren't getting at home. As far as the amount of warning until a child recieves ISS. I believe it is 3 referrals before ISS so it is not always after only one offense unless the child shows a really bad attitude about being corrected. Perhaps it is Okaloosa County that should "take some advice" as you say.
sorry that posted twice I don't know what went wrong
Yes, Santa Rosa did awesome!
You didn't say you gave warnings for the first few minor offenses that a student has. That changes everything. That's the RIGHT way to do it.
I guess no oriental students were suspended. That is understandable.
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